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Lovecraft Country
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Podcasts > S&L Podcast - #337 - Hackers, but Bears

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message 1: by Veronica, Supreme Sword (new) - rated it 5 stars

Veronica Belmont (veronicabelmont) | 1528 comments Mod
Well we are certainly interested in Molly Gloss after that Ursula K. LeGuin blurb, we’re mad on behalf of Chuck Wendig, each for different reasons, and coincidentally Zeroes by Chuck Wendig is our next pick. Plus we wrap up the journey that is Matt Ruff’s Lovecraft Country.

http://swordandlaser.com/home/2018/10...
http://soundcloud.com/swordandlaser/...
http://www.patreon.com/posts/22317236


Trike | 4913 comments All this Chuck Wendig stuff and my post about his thread with Sam Sykes barely gets a mention? Pardon my French, but golly.

In all seriousness, I do think Tom’s comment about ”It doesn’t matter what he said, if he’s good at doing the comic book he should be allowed to do the comic book” is a slippery slope attitude. Especially when you followed it up about revisiting the idea if the book doesn’t sell well.

I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that what you said is not what you meant, but on the face of it that’s a terribly dangerous comment. I think it DOES matter what someone says, nevermind what impact it might have on a corportation’s bottom line. We should never put profits above people.

The firing of Roseanne by Disney was appropriate, because her comments were actively harmful. James Gunn being fired by Disney is a bit of a gray area but I absolutely understand it, because they had just fired Roseanne and Gunn’s tweets were vile and repulsive. I’m baffled that any adult could think those were funny or they might lend one some edgy street creed, but he did apologize for them years before it was an issue, hence why I think it’s a gray area. Roseanne was unapologetic until forced to recant her bigoted comments, and then she immediately walked the apology back.

I do agree that firing Wendig was a mistake, but he wasn’t fired by Disney, he was fired by Marvel Comics, which are distinct business entities. Marvel Comics is run by a conservative billionaire who is also a genuine crazy person, so it’s not surprising that Wendig’s liberal tweets would anger his boss. Disney does own Marvel, but since Perlmutter is still in charge of the comics despite Disney doing its best to isolate him (Kevin Feige is solely in charge of Marvel Studios, for instance, after an internal power struggle with Perlmutter), I have to think there’s something in the contract that ensures he remains the boss of that division.

But it’s especially bad because Wendig calls out bad people on the left and poor journalism just as often as he targets anyone on the right. It’s just that the right wing couldn’t tolerate any opposition.

So it doesn’t look good, but I doubt Perlmutter cares or that this was a Disney decision. I may be completely wrong about that, it that’s this situation looks to me from everything I’ve read.

Tom’s overall point about letting stuff go is a good one, which is something I sometimes struggle with, but I have absolutely zero tolerance for people who promote violence against others merely because they disagree with their opinions — or in the case of things like the Sad/Rabid Puppies, Comicsgate and Gamergate, actively threaten to murder people merely because they are different.

We can not stand idly by and allow that to happen. It must be opposed at every turn. As Edmund Burke said, “The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.” Wendig actively fights against that evil, so it was particularly shameful for Marvel to acquiesce to the trolls and bigots.

In other news, who ate all the Halloween candy I bought for Beggars Night? I’m launching an investigation immediately.


message 3: by Rick (new)

Rick | 2193 comments The Wendig firing also gives the lie to their "here, we're going to be diverse because we care about people" lines.


message 4: by Melanie (new)

Melanie | 34 comments Trike wrote: "All this Chuck Wendig stuff and my post about his thread with Sam Sykes barely gets a mention? Pardon my French, but golly.

In all seriousness, I do think Tom’s comment about ”It doesn’t matter wh..."


Amen!


Iain Bertram (Iain_Bertram) | 605 comments Trike wrote: "All this Chuck Wendig stuff and my post about his thread with Sam Sykes barely gets a mention? Pardon my French, but golly.

In all seriousness, I do think Tom’s comment about ”It doesn’t matter wh..."


It also highlights "right to work" laws where you can be fired with no recourse as long as they don't give a reason for the firing. Toe the line or else...


Iain Bertram (Iain_Bertram) | 605 comments Trike wrote: "All this Chuck Wendig stuff and my post about his thread with Sam Sykes barely gets a mention? Pardon my French, but golly.

In all seriousness, I do think Tom’s comment about ”It doesn’t matter wh..."


The Disney actions are such a false equivalency with Roseanne.

Roseanne makes her statements (really disgusting statements) while her new show was being made.

Gunn made his statements many years before he started work with Disney and they had no problem with him until Trolls complained.

Wendig just stood up for his opinions without denigrating anyone.

This is corporate evil. Banal, but leading to great depths.


message 7: by John (Taloni) (new)

John (Taloni) Taloni (JohnTaloni) | 2618 comments Wendig: "Winter is coming, you callous fucknecks, you prolapsed assholes, you grotesque monsters, you racists and rapists and wretched abusers, you vengeful petty horrors."

All this over a difference of opinion.

I would call that "denigrating."


message 8: by Tassie Dave, S&L Historian (new) - rated it 3 stars

Tassie Dave | 2338 comments Mod
Why expect Chuck to be mature? He does have a baby brain

;-)


Iain Bertram (Iain_Bertram) | 605 comments John (Taloni) wrote: "Wendig: "Winter is coming, you callous fucknecks, you prolapsed assholes, you grotesque monsters, you racists and rapists and wretched abusers, you vengeful petty horrors."

All this over a differe..."


That looks like Parliamentary language to me....

Ok I’m Australian so my understanding of civil discourse may bee a little underdeveloped

At least it doesn’t denigrate people for the birth, but what they stand for.


Trike | 4913 comments John (Taloni) wrote: "Wendig: "Winter is coming, you callous fucknecks, you prolapsed assholes, you grotesque monsters, you racists and rapists and wretched abusers, you vengeful petty horrors."

All this over a difference of opinion.

I would call that "denigrating."..."


I would, too. However, it’s far more than a difference of opinion. The people he was talking to have actively threatened the lives of people they hate.

For that reason I wholeheartedly and unreservedly agree with Wendig’s statement, and he was justifiably angry, and it is pretty much an echo of what people have been saying to him for years. So denigrate away, I say.

That quote by Wendig is his reaction to Kavanaugh’s confirmation, which is why it was so angry, so it needs to be understood in that context,

For those unaware, Wendig has been the target of Comicsgate homophobes and misogynists because of a gay character he included in a Star Wars novel. These alt-right trolls have threatened Wendig and his family. Over a fictional character in a sci-fi novel. So when Brett Kavanaugh was approved by the Senate to be on the Supreme Court, many people on the left took it as the alt-right extremists winning. I watched the entirety of the Kavanaugh hearings and I don’t believe him for a minute. But setting aside the sexual assault accusations against him, the fact that he has committed perjury —which is not an opinion, it’s what he did — and his emotional, combative, and embarrassing display should have disqualified him.

Instead, the Right now has a champion of the very type of horrific behavior which has been aimed at actors like The Last Jedi’s Kelly Marie Tran whose “crime” is to not be a white man. Kavanaugh claimed to be impartial, yet time after time he echoed the alt-right talking points about an SJW conspiracy throughout his partisan responses. He even implied retribution for this perceived coordinated attack on his reputation.

Kavanaugh claimed he had never disrespected women in his life, which was a lie. We know this because of things he wrote when he was in high school and college. But then we actually saw him angrily disrespect Senator Amy Klobuchar to her face. Senators have to ask tough questions of Supreme Court nominees. This is not just a job interview, it is THE job interview. These nine people will affect the lives of millions of Americans for decades. In that situation, a person should be cool, calm, and collected, not hurling insults at someone like a petulant child.

When Kavanaugh displayed the exact same angry misogyny toward women that the alt-right creeps have, it naturally outraged people. For someone who has been the target of vile attacks and threats by these same types of people, emotions run high.

Hence Wendig’s response.


message 11: by Rick (new)

Rick | 2193 comments John (Taloni) wrote: "All this over a difference of opinion.

I would call that "denigrating."..."

And deserved. Inform yourself next time so you don't look this foolish.


message 12: by Tassie Dave, S&L Historian (new) - rated it 3 stars

Tassie Dave | 2338 comments Mod
Rick wrote: "John (Taloni) wrote: "All this over a difference of opinion.

I would call that "denigrating."..."
And deserved. Inform yourself next time so you don't look this foolish."


We can discuss this civilly without making insults.


Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth | 1406 comments When and where can I buy Veronica's bear book? Is there an audio version narrated by bears?


message 14: by Veronica, Supreme Sword (new) - rated it 5 stars

Veronica Belmont (veronicabelmont) | 1528 comments Mod
Hah NOPE!


message 15: by Tom, Supreme Laser (new) - added it

Tom Merritt (tommerritt) | 1031 comments Mod
Yes. The real issue is bears.


message 16: by John (Taloni) (new)

John (Taloni) Taloni (JohnTaloni) | 2618 comments *Looks at gut*

*Strokes beard*

Okay, I'll do it.


Trike | 4913 comments Ruth (tilltab) wrote: "When and where can I buy Veronica's bear book? Is there an audio version narrated by bears?"

“It was a dark and stormy nigh-GRARR! Rawr! Growl, grr, snap. RRRrrRrrr...

ROAR

Grr?

WAWRR!! Rowwwlll, gar, snf snf

snf

ARR, ARR, GRARR

...rowlll?

ROWL

GRALLL RAWR RAFF snrf


message 18: by John (Nevets) (new)

John (Nevets) Nevets (Nevets) | 994 comments That sounds like a camp skit, with “Interupting Bear”.


message 19: by Sean (new)

Sean O'Hara (SeanOHara) | 2342 comments Iain wrote: "It also highlights "right to work" laws where you can be fired with no recourse as long as they don't give a reason for the firing. Toe the line or else..."

Comic writers are generally considered contractors rather than employees, so they don't even get the minimal protection of right to work laws.


message 20: by Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth (last edited Nov 02, 2018 10:48PM) (new)

Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth | 1406 comments Trike wrote: "Ruth (tilltab) wrote: "When and where can I buy Veronica's bear book? Is there an audio version narrated by bears?"

...rowlll?

ROWL

GRALLL RAWR RAFF snrf"


Aha, uhuh, and then what happens?


AndrewP (AndrewCa) | 2184 comments Tom mentioned Daemon in the podcast so I'm kinda wondering why he didn't pick that one instead of Zeroes.


message 23: by Mark (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mark (mmtz) | 1027 comments AndrewP wrote: "Tom mentioned Daemon in the podcast so I'm kinda wondering why he didn't pick that one instead of Zeroes."

Daemon was the April 2009 S&L pick

http://swordandlaser.wikia.com/wiki/...


AndrewP (AndrewCa) | 2184 comments Mark wrote: "AndrewP wrote: "Tom mentioned Daemon in the podcast so I'm kinda wondering why he didn't pick that one instead of Zeroes."

Daemon was the April 2009 S..."


Thank you, that explains it. Picking such a similar book is an odd choice though.


message 25: by Veronica, Supreme Sword (new) - rated it 5 stars

Veronica Belmont (veronicabelmont) | 1528 comments Mod
AndrewP wrote: "Mark wrote: "AndrewP wrote: "Tom mentioned Daemon in the podcast so I'm kinda wondering why he didn't pick that one instead of Zeroes."

Daemon was the..."


Well, we wanted to specifically pick a book by Chuck Wendig, for starters. And since it was a Tom pick month, he picked something more in that vein, instead of something more fantasy-like.


message 26: by Kate (new)

Kate | 2 comments John (Taloni) wrote: "Wendig: "Winter is coming, you callous fucknecks, you prolapsed assholes, you grotesque monsters, you racists and rapists and wretched abusers, you vengeful petty horrors."

All this over a differe..."


It's not just a "difference of opinion" when one group refuse to acknowledge the basic humanity of many minority groups and actively try to take rights away from them. This is people's lives and safety.

I was pretty concerned by Tom's comments in this vein, about how even if we differ in opinion we can all still "get along". This sounds eerily similar to the arguments the Right make to deflect attention away from the consequences of their actions, by claiming the Left is being "intolerant" of their beliefs.

...is Tom a Republican?


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