The Sword and Laser discussion

Zeroes (Zer0es, #1)
This topic is about Zeroes
86 views
Podcasts > S&L Podcast - #339 - Nope Ropes on a Tren

Comments Showing 1-15 of 15 (15 new)    post a comment »
dateDown arrow    newest »

message 1: by Veronica, Supreme Sword (new) - added it

Veronica Belmont (veronicabelmont) | 1528 comments Mod
We’ve got options! For TV shows! Well we don’t but Annalee Newitz, Mira Grant and Kristine Kathryn Rusch do! Plus our feelings on Zeroes.

http://swordandlaser.com/home/2018/11...
http://soundcloud.com/swordandlaser/...
http://www.patreon.com/posts/23006719


Julia (Yurana) | 27 comments Listening to you talk about Zeroes made it more clear for me why I disliked it so much. I agree with Veronica that Chance is a Mary Sue (or Garry Stue if you will) though I think the problem is not that he is incapable and more that he doesn’t have to work for his skills. With all the others it is implied that they put a lot of time and effort into getting good at what they are doing, Chance just has to be himself. And the unbelievable romance doesn’t help either.
It feels like a wish fulfillment fantasy for nerdy white guys. Which is okay I guess, but very much not for me.

Anyway, I’m really excited for the December pick. So that’s good.


Caitlin | 266 comments Julia wrote: "It feels like a wish fulfillment fantasy for nerdy white guys. Which is okay I guess, but very much not for me."

I identified this pretty early on while reading as well - Chance felt like that bland cutout that the audience is supposed to insert themselves into so they feel like they're the special one living out the story.


Jessica (J-Boo) | 207 comments The Widow of Zheng got the cell phones from two of the guys interrogating a Chance on the train


message 5: by Silvana (new)

Silvana (silvaubrey) | 992 comments Zacuity on TV! I quite loved Autonomous and the adaptation would be very interesting especially for the (view spoiler)


Stephen Richter (StephenofLongBeach) | 923 comments I did a Chuck Wendig read a couple of month earlier because A) Chuck Twitter feed is fun and entertaining, B) I needed Lasers book that were not overly long. I enjoyed Zeroes but liked Invasive even more. The lone copy of Ka: Dar Oakley in the Ruin of Ymr has gone missing in the local library. I believe some kind soul misplaced it to either the Nature section or perhaps even to the Foreign Language section. I will have to do my own personal search as it does not seem to be the type of book that one would steal.


Iain Bertram (Iain_Bertram) | 605 comments Stephen wrote: "I did a Chuck Wendig read a couple of month earlier because A) Chuck Twitter feed is fun and entertaining, B) I needed Lasers book that were not overly long. I enjoyed Zeroes but liked [book:Invasi..."

You would be surprised at what people forget to return


message 8: by Tom, Supreme Laser (new) - rated it 5 stars

Tom Merritt (tommerritt) | 1031 comments Mod
Wow. I really don't feel that Chance is a bland cutout at all. The love story too doesn't feel unbelievable especially because it doesn't come easy. I feel like sometimes we're quick to throw "Mary Sue" on a character if we find it weak. And I can see all kinds of valid criticisms of Chance but calling something Mary Sue, IMHO, should be reserved for the really bad characters that never have anything go wrong and have no growth arc whatsoever.

Chance's romance was not easy and in fact pretty rocky but it didn't progress evenly for sure. Maybe it went too quickly. I think it's believable that Chance didn't have to learn his skills, he was a natural con man. That's a real type of person. I think the story would have benefited from a better explanation of that though.

If Chance had been a con man from the streets and expert at fooling people the cast of Zeroes might have felt too contrived too. I liked that Chance had imposter syndrome and didn't recognize his own talents because that's a real type of person that is often left out of stories.


message 9: by Caitlin (last edited Dec 06, 2018 05:45PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Caitlin | 266 comments Tom wrote: "Wow. I really don't feel that Chance is a bland cutout at all. The love story too doesn't feel unbelievable especially because it doesn't come easy. I feel like sometimes we're quick to throw "Mary..."

I probably could have stated what I felt in a better manner. He felt like the audience surrogate to me. He's the everyman with the imposter syndrome that really just needed a chance to make amends for something in his past that haunts him. I feel like a lot of readers could insert themselves into that, which is why I called him a cut-out.
I just don't see anyone else in the story that the audience would strongly identify with, other than maybe Copper? All the other hackers were a little larger than life, and therefore I assumed fewer people would see their reflections in them. Maybe I'm wrong about that - I'm not a hacker, so I might not be the target audience here.


message 10: by Tom, Supreme Laser (new) - rated it 5 stars

Tom Merritt (tommerritt) | 1031 comments Mod
Caitlin wrote: "Tom wrote: "Wow. I really don't feel that Chance is a bland cutout at all. The love story too doesn't feel unbelievable especially because it doesn't come easy. I feel like sometimes we're quick to..."


Well put and totally fair.


Julia (Yurana) | 27 comments Tom wrote: "Wow. I really don't feel that Chance is a bland cutout at all. The love story too doesn't feel unbelievable especially because it doesn't come easy. I feel like sometimes we're quick to throw "Mary..."

Maybe Mary Sue is a too strong term and it has a lot of baggage attached to it. Chance certainly is not someone who has everything fall into place for him. But while I read the book, I often felt that Chance was made into a punching bag at the beginning so the audience would sympathize with him more. Which had kind of the opposite effect on me; I felt manipulated and resented Chance all the more.
I guess I just really have a problem with the tope of "young white dude has all the skills and potential he needs already, he just has to believe in himself to save the world and get the girl". As I said it's a wish-fulfilment fantasy and there is nothing wrong with that. It's just not for me.


message 12: by Tom, Supreme Laser (new) - rated it 5 stars

Tom Merritt (tommerritt) | 1031 comments Mod
Julia wrote: ""young white dude has all the skills and potential he needs already, he just has to believe in himself to save the world and get the girl"

Oh that totally makes sense. It's not that it's 'wrong' per se just well-trodden territory. Like with ruts and stuff. You could break an axle.


Caitlin | 266 comments Hahahaha I just listened to the latest podcast and I don't know whether my last comment was posted before or after it released, but I'm glad we're all on the same page. Go team!


Caitlin | 266 comments Julia wrote: "I guess I just really have a problem with the tope of "young white dude has all the skills and potential he needs already, he just has to believe in himself to save the world and get the girl"

Oooh I think this is *why* it didn't connect with me. I've known too many guys who really needed to level up in life but they just felt misunderstood and that they were owed greatness. They don't have to do better, they just need people to see how awesome they really are and then they'll get the girl! /ugh
The imposter syndrome was the thing that saved me from hating it, so I'm glad that was in there.


message 15: by Iain (new) - rated it 3 stars

Iain Bertram (Iain_Bertram) | 605 comments Julia wrote: "Tom wrote: "Wow. I really don't feel that Chance is a bland cutout at all. The love story too doesn't feel unbelievable especially because it doesn't come easy. I feel like sometimes we're quick to..."

I know, white guy needs to be recognised for his greatness.

Except, each of these hackers was chosen by the AI for their skills (and the fact that they could be lifted). Therefore Chance was added to the team because of his social hacking skills.

We didn't see any other team develop their skills as they went along. Its just that Chance thought he was there for his computing skills (he hacked the accounts using social skills). Think Bill Clinton type.


back to top